Original Poem vs. Religion

I had been thinking about this for a while, but couldn't really come to a concrete answer. My question is this, if the author of this poem were of any religion when the poem was originally told or made up, how would it have effected the story as a whole? I.E., if Christianity were around when the poem was made, not just written, how would it change the way the author wrote about the characters. Would he have used the Cain and Able story? How would he adress god or heaven?

Also, if anyone knows something about another major religion, how do you think it would have changed the story? I was also trying to seperate the religious aspects of the story from the basic backbone of the story. It seems like the action in the story, such as the fights and wars, are part of the backbone of the story while the backgrounds of the characters (grendel), and the motives for fighting came from religion. (By motives I mean they thought they would go to heaven if they died defending their people, or the fact that god would reward them.)

Hey guys,

I, (dont) like Michelle, just figured out how to use this.

I had been waiting the entire book to see what the reasoning for the chains on the man on the front cover symbolized. I have not been able to figure it out...maybe i missed it. But, I had been looking online at other covers to Beowulf, I found it interesting to see how different translaters interperated Beowulf's apperance. I have included the links to different covers just in case anyone was intrested.

http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/images/n6/n33202.jpg
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0451527402.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
http://i.f.alexander.users.btopenworld.com/favourites/porter.jpg
http://images.barnesandnoble.com/images/7380000/7382209.jpg
http://www.randomhouse.com/images/dyn/cover/?source=9780440905608&height=300&maxwidth=170

Happy first day of FALL!

YAY!

I'm finally in! and i just figured out how to work this thing. so let's talk about BEOWULF! I think it would be a cool idea to do a future poll on everybody's thoughts on the book. To me i didn't think the language was as hard as i thought it would be to understand.


Bambi wants me to say he's the best!

Cain Vs Anglo-Saxon

Hey all its Bambi I just wanted to make a connection that I made for the book. We all know the Cain and Abel story by now and how Cain killed Abel...Well this reminded me of the Anglo-Saxon culture and how they all try and be the best at what they do. I think it was Wiglaf or Untfur that got jealous of Beowulf and how he came to save the Danes and was almost taking over the duties of the other "heroes". So it had a sort of Cain and Abel plot through the entire story because someone always picks favorites and someone else gets jealous..Just in this story that jealousy didn't get in the way.. Just a thought and something that i noticed...Mr Hoffman you are still my hero..Hi Kelsey :)Thanks and see you all in class!

fustration!

Seeing im not very computer smart (seeing that it took me about a week or more to figure out how to post anything, or even get on my acount), or maybe its that my computer dislikes me.I cant post a response to anything. So i thought i would let you in on my fustration, and leave a respose as a post.


As a response about the heros topic. I agree with what alot of people are saying. Although I dont agree with what people saying that heros can be sports athletes, i have been thinking about the situation. How can we say someone that gets paid so much for what they do be a hero? Some athletes are if they break traditions, such as J. Robenson. But people such as berry bonds shouldn't be. He shouldn't even be classifyled as a role model since he was taking steriods, but thats a whole different not english related topic. I think thata hero should be someone that does something with out wanting anything in return. Also about heros today and back in beowulfs time, are the total opposits. Nowadays most of our heros arnt even reconized for what they did and how many people they saved, but celebraties get millons of people to admire them.

Hope everyone had a nice weekend!

Heroes vs. Role Models

Hey everyone,
We talked a lot about heroes and role models in English on Friday, so I thought I would post the defintions of each so that we can all see the differences... and similarities.

Hero: a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities; a person who, in the opinion of others, has heroic qualities or has performed a heroic act and is regarded as a model or ideal

Role Model: a person whose behavior, example, or success is or can be emulated by others, esp. by younger people.

[both are courtesty of http://www.dictionary.com/]

I personally feel that there is a difference between the two, but I'm sure there are others out there who disagree :)
-Becca

Kings in Section 1 and 5

Hey guys,

Sorry I was out today so in order to get some participation points I'm writing on here. Did anyone notice that sections 1 and 5 had a lot to deal with kings? It seemed that it represented almost balance. The poem starts heavy on history and ends heavy on history. Just a thought...

Tolkien Definitely Read This

In the fourth part of the book we learn of the dragon gaurding the gold. a thief steals some of it, the dragon gets pissed and starts burning up the nearby town. In Tolkien's The Hobbit (a prequel to The Lord of The Rings), Bilbo and the 13 dwarfs set out to steal back the dragon's gold. When Bilbo finally swipes one piece of treasure the dragon wakes up and starts reaking havok on the nearby towns people. This is another similarity between Tolkien and Beowulf. Connor pointed out the similar style of writing and i found a similarity in plot. Has anyone else found any connections between the two?

Grendel's image

One thing i realized after finishing the first three sections was that my image of Grendel changed throughout each section. In the first section, I didn't really know what to see him as, whether it was a dragon, a monster, or just some phsychopathic maniac who went around killing Danes. In the second section, we got some information that he was a monster who had big monster feet. So I pictured him as a big hairy ogre type monster, but the picture still wasn't clear. Finally, in the third section, we found out that his mother had a tail, so maybe he did too? Also when Beowulf slayed the body of Grendel after defeating his mother, and they were carrying the head back, the poem said it took four men to carry the head. So now I have a clearer picture of what he looked like with his monster feet, his tail, and the big head with some hair ontop since that was what Beowulf carried the head with. I wonder if we'll get even more information on him in the next section or is he totally out of the poem? Did anyone else's pictures change of Grendel throughout the sections?

An Honorable Death

So Grendel's mother has gotten a little action lately, and her snatching of one of the king's most trusted men has made me think more about modern death in battle vs. anciently.

These days, if a helicopter is shot down in the Middle East and five people die, the whole world knows. But back in the time of Beowulf, battles were common in which droves of people would be slain, and this was seen as honorable, and not seen as a cause to mourn. A common expression that people use regarding death is “they went out with their boots on,” or they died while in action, and people commonly say that death while in action is the best way to die.

Beowulf says on page 97,

“Wise sir, do not grieve. It is always better to avenge dear ones than to indulge in the mourning. For every one of us, living in this world means waiting for our end. Let whoever can win glory before death.”

Therefore, it probably wasn't as common back then for people to sit around and cry because someone died, because death in battle was thought of as honorable. Besides death in battle, there was more death in general because of their lack of effective medicine, and because many died as infants, children, or birthing mothers.

Also, one's legacy was at stake. The reason why death in battle was seen as honorable was because it ensures that the person's reputation would be forever seen in good light; the last action of such a man would be defending his God, his religion, his freedom, the peace, his wife, and his children. And personally, I'd like to be frozen in history as a defender of those subjects.

Women

In response to somebody's question, "Where's the women?" I did some research. Apparently, women were seen with no identity. They were to do as the lords and masters wished them to do. They were married off to foreign lands to promote peace between warring neighbors. Apparently, they felt a sense of isolation, and desperation because of their inability to change things.The ancient works were not kind to women. One essay that I read said,

"The Lady is also a tool, but has an added role of temptress and adulteress."

If you don't believe me, and think I'm just a shovenist with no decency, pick a source from the included page.

Sorry girls.

Sneezing

For those who are still curious about sneezing, here is an interesting link:

http://www.snopes.com/language/phrases/blessyou.asp

Just a follow up

"An except from Durin's awakening"

The world world was young, the mountains green,
No stain yet on the Moon was seen,
No words were laid on stream or stone,
When Durin woke and walked alone.
He named the nameless hills and dells;
He drank from yet untasted wells;
He stooped and looked in Mirrormere,
And saw a crown of stars appear,
As gems upon a silver thread,
Above the shadow of his head.

The world was fair, the mountains tall,
In Elder Days before the fall
Of mighty Kings in Nargothrond
And Gondolin, who now beyond
The Western Seas have passed away:
The world was fair in Durin's Day.

A king he was on carven throne
In many-pillared halls of stone
With golden roof and silver floor,
And runes of power upon the door.
The light of sun and star and moon
In shining lamps of crystal hewn
Undimmed by cloud or shade of night
There shown forever far and bright.

There hammer on the anvil smote,
There chisel clove, and graver wrote;
There forged was bladed and bound was hilt;
The delver mined the mason built.
There beryl, pearl, and opal pale
And metel wrought like fishes' mail,
Buckler and corslet, axe and sword,
And shining spears were laid in horde.

Unwearied then were Durin's folk;
Beneath the mountains music woke:
The harpers harped, the minstrels sang,
And at the gates the trumpets rang.

The world is grey, the mountains old,
The forge's fire is ashen-cold;
No harp is wrung, no hammer falls:
The darkness dwells in Durin's halls;
The shadow lies upon his tomb
In Moria, in Khazad-dûm.
But still the sunken stars appear
In dark and windless Mirrormere;
There lies his crown in water deep,
Till Durin wakes again from sleep.

- The Fellowship of the ring

I get the same feel almost from both.
Anyone else?

Poem?

Beowulf is described as an 'epic poem'.

I've never read an epic poem before, so this observation may largely be due to a lack of experience in the genre, but when I read the story, I really don't see what makes it a poem. I mean, obviously there are line breaks, but it feels to me like it's really just prose with the line breaks added in. If you read it out loud to someone, I really think they'd hear a story and not a poem, regardless of how you tried to phrase the lines to fit the meter.

And just in case this comes up in a comment, I know that poetry doesn't have to rhyme or follow common conventional techniques that we've been learning up to this point - but it seems to have just about nothing that I've become used to seeing in poems by this point in my life - meter, rhyme (when called for), symbolism (we noted how there wasn't much of it in class), alliteration, etc.. I dunno, it doesn't feel like a poem to me.

edit: this is matt s, forgot to change my name for this one.

Tolkien, anyone?

It's rather difficult for me to understand the concept that this poem is "The Poem". By "The Poem", or rather "The Story", I mean that it's one of the first, if not the first to ever arise from England. How am I supposed to examine a style of writing that (as far as I know) draws it's style from...nowhere! Take the works for Tolkien for example. Specifically within The Lord of The Rings, there are poems and songs that are almost identical in style and prose to Beowulf (the songs of Moria, anyone).

At this point your all scratching your heads with a slightly puzzled look on your face and absolutely no idea what I'm talking about. But if you do read Tolkien, or simply do a good deal of reading, I'm curious as to know what other works of literature are similar to Beowolf in their look and feel.

By feel I mean...it's pretty self explanatory really.

- Connor (First Post, woohoo)

A little PS to you all.
We're all in this class for a reason. For those of us who love English Class (there is not a thread of sarcasm in my writing, if you can't tell over this inferior form of communication), 3rd period is a sort of Oasis for us. I'd hope you all feel the same, and portray that in your actions. (Never be afraid to talk!)

Mead Recipe

Here's a link to a website with a mead recipe: strictly for educational purposes of course.

Disclaimer: I do not endorse the making of mead, just in case administration reads this.

Welcome

Hello class, Welcome to the Brit Lit Blog. This is a place you can continue our discussions from class, ask questions, collaborate on assignments, and even bring up new ideas that haven't come up in class. If you miss a class discussion, you can come here to share your thoughts with us and make up the participation points you're missing by being out. I hope we can make good use of this space to enhance our experiences in Brit Lit this year. Enjoy!